I read James Fell's article when he reposted it a few weeks ago. It is not an easy read. It should be mandatory reading, though.
Thank you for keeping this topic front and center. Far too often, we go right back to old thinking patterns once there's a new topic to be engaged about.
Few things upset me like this topic. I can't for the life of me understand why men can't understand a simple concept like "no" meaning "no." It's not that difficult, and I hate being tarred with the same brush simply because so many of my fellow Penis-Americans can't treat women with the respect they deserve.
What also bothers me is that we were taught as children not to say no. If our mothers said, "Give aunt Edna a kiss and hug before we leave," we weren't allowed to say no to hugging creepy aunt Edna because she stunk like an old ashtray. We were cajoled into trying gross foods; "oh, just try it, one bite won't hurt you, you just might like it." Despite our innards trying to hide like an ostrich.
We didn't know what bodily autonomy was then, so why should we care now? We grew up into perfectly well adjusted adults, didn't we,
It does not excuse the behavior, no. How do we teach the Penis-Americans that generations of behavior ingrained into them should be buried with the last generation?
This is not surprising, though it is disgusting. I've NEVER pushed even one word past receiving a "no", and I have actually had women tell me later that I "gave up too easily" after their "no".
WTF?
In each case, they were surprised when I told them that I was taught to respect everyone, especially women, and that maybe "hard to get" is not a desirable trait, but honesty is. Male-female communication has never been easy, but no-means-no, ffs!
Agreed. I never wanted to be the guy that took things too far and then had to suffer the consequences later. "Hard to get" may or may not be a desirable trait, but I never wanted to play that game. I always preferred women who could be honest about what they wanted.
I read James Fell's article when he reposted it a few weeks ago. It is not an easy read. It should be mandatory reading, though.
Thank you for keeping this topic front and center. Far too often, we go right back to old thinking patterns once there's a new topic to be engaged about.
Few things upset me like this topic. I can't for the life of me understand why men can't understand a simple concept like "no" meaning "no." It's not that difficult, and I hate being tarred with the same brush simply because so many of my fellow Penis-Americans can't treat women with the respect they deserve.
What also bothers me is that we were taught as children not to say no. If our mothers said, "Give aunt Edna a kiss and hug before we leave," we weren't allowed to say no to hugging creepy aunt Edna because she stunk like an old ashtray. We were cajoled into trying gross foods; "oh, just try it, one bite won't hurt you, you just might like it." Despite our innards trying to hide like an ostrich.
We didn't know what bodily autonomy was then, so why should we care now? We grew up into perfectly well adjusted adults, didn't we,
We’re all deeply fucked up, just in very different ways. That doesn’t excuse the behavior of Penis-Americans, though. 🤬
It does not excuse the behavior, no. How do we teach the Penis-Americans that generations of behavior ingrained into them should be buried with the last generation?
I don't get it either. As I said elsewhere, "having wanker does not make you special. And being a wanker makes you less than a man."
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
This is not surprising, though it is disgusting. I've NEVER pushed even one word past receiving a "no", and I have actually had women tell me later that I "gave up too easily" after their "no".
WTF?
In each case, they were surprised when I told them that I was taught to respect everyone, especially women, and that maybe "hard to get" is not a desirable trait, but honesty is. Male-female communication has never been easy, but no-means-no, ffs!
Agreed. I never wanted to be the guy that took things too far and then had to suffer the consequences later. "Hard to get" may or may not be a desirable trait, but I never wanted to play that game. I always preferred women who could be honest about what they wanted.
I never even thought about "what if". I just take people at their word.
"Hard to get" is just fine -- IF it's not a ploy.
Honesty is highly underrated by too high a percentage of the population.